I’ve Heard That: Back in My Day, It Was Called Radio

Speaker 4 (00:03):

Welcome to I’ve heard that the podcast from Hurrdat Marketing, that discusses digital marketing trends, tips and more.

Meghan (00:10):

Hi everyone. I’m Megan Trapp. I’m here with some exciting guests today from Hurrdat Media. So welcome Jill. Welcome Pat.

JT (00:17):

Thank you.

Pat (00:17):

Are we exciting? We’re exciting?

Meghan (00:19):

You are so exciting.

Pat (00:20):

Oh my gosh.

JT (00:21):

Bar’s set.

Pat (00:22):

Yeah. Right.

Meghan (00:24):

Tell me what you guys do here. This is your stomping ground.

Pat (00:28):

We are the directors of the podcast division for Hurrdat.

JT (00:29):

For the whole podcast services network, taking care of bringing in branded podcasts or entertainment podcasts, helping people learn how to put a podcast together.

Pat (00:40):

Anything podcast. We cover it.

JT (00:41):

Anything if you’re wanting to do it yourself, we’ll help you get started. If you want somebody to help you do everything and you just bring it, we can do that too.

Meghan (00:48):

Awesome. Well, you just covered so much. I guess we don’t need to have this episode.

JT (00:51):

Nope, we’re done.

Pat (00:51):

Are we done? Thanks Megan. Thanks for coming in.

Meghan (00:55):

Well, break that down. So if you want to start your own podcast, what does it take? And then if you don’t want to start your own podcast, you want us to help you start your own podcast, how do we help?

JT (01:04):

Sure. Pat’s got like a list we put together kind of the necessities.

Pat (01:08):

Like equipment list? Yeah.

JT (01:08):

Your necessities, if you want to do it yourself.

Pat (01:12):

Because you can, anybody can. You can go to Best Buy, you can go to Nebraska Furniture Mart, wherever and get the equipment that you need. Just need microphone, you need headphones because when you’re talking to guests online, whether it’s zoom or wherever, you’re going to have to be able to hear them. And then you can record right on your laptop. I mean, you can actually do it yourself. What the difficulty is that for business owners, their whole deal is running their business. And the podcast is just a part of their marketing plan, but it can take up so much time that they need to focus on running their business. Usually they end up quitting, you end up quitting three or four weeks in because it’s just a lot of work.

JT (01:49):

Yeah, it is. And for businesses in particular, anybody can start one, like if you’re just doing one out of your basement with your best friend, you aren’t so concerned with appearances maybe, or with the overall quality. But if you’re doing one for your business, you want to make sure the editing is good and smooth, you want to make sure that your transitions are smooth and if there’s things that have to be fixed, you need to learn how to edit. You need to learn how to master the podcast before you release that episode. And that’s where, when he was talking about the businesses, they get frustrated because that’s a full-time job. That’s what we do. That’s a full-time job. So if I had to do this and then I had to also learn how to run a hardware store, I’d be mad because I’m like, I don’t have time to run a hardware store. I have to do my podcast. So that’s where we can come in. But yeah, the regular person that just wants to do a fun one with their best friend…

Pat (02:36):

Right, you could totally do it. But when you do a podcast for your business, you want to be perceived as the expert in your field, but yet you have a podcast that doesn’t sound very good. It doesn’t jive.

Meghan (02:46):

Right, so then you don’t sound like very expert level.

JT (02:50):

Right. It’s one of those things you don’t realize it’s bad until it’s bad but you don’t realize how bad you need something until it’s wrong. And a good podcast doesn’t get in the way of the content. Whereas a podcast that’s produced poorly, you don’t even hear the content because you’re so focused on the things that are going wrong.

Meghan (03:09):

You might not even make it all the way through.

JT (03:11):

Right. Some are hard to listen to because you’ll have background noise that they didn’t realize was going on or maybe the volume levels aren’t right.

Pat (03:20):

Well, and if you notice on some videos that you watch on YouTube, people are really forgiving, if the lighting isn’t perfect or the camera isn’t perfect, but once you have bad audio, people are out.

Meghan (03:29):

That’s true.

JT (03:31):

It is. And you notice like these headsets that we use, we discovered these and it’s really funny coming from radio, we’ve worked with sports stations and they always had the headsets. It looks like you’re sitting on the sidelines and calling the game, but we realize the real advantage to this over a tabletop set is the fact that people can’t drift away from the microphone. And that’s like a producer’s worst nightmare. Because they want to come over and just smack on the top of the head.

Pat (03:56):

Oh, I’ve done it a couple times. Like at the end of a session before we had these. When they start talking and the microphones off, I’m like one time just pop. It’s like, “Dude, I’ve moved your head 10 times. Let’s just do this.” But yeah, this saves so much time and it lets them concentrate on what they’re presenting.

JT (04:12):

On what they’re doing. It gives them the table space also without having the microphone. Because some people like to touch and they grab the microphone or they move it. And it makes sounds that they don’t even perceive.

Pat (04:21):

Everybody can do a podcast. Just not everybody knows how to do it correctly.

JT (04:25):

The little things.

Pat (04:26):

It’s the little things.

Meghan (04:28):

Well, so a business owner that wants to start a podcast, you guys kind of mentioned the equipment side, but how do they tackle the content side? Where do they start on putting together a season or a series?

Pat (04:38):

We help them with all that.

JT (04:40):

We do. We’ve got everything from bankers and doctors and lawyers an OSHA guy, we’ve got agriculture, we’ve got a little bit of everything. And really it comes down to what are the topics that you’re wanting to cover? What’s what’s the overall theme. And maybe the banking, maybe they’re focusing one series that’s going to be on student loans or “let’s talk PPP”. Let’s talk this last year in particular and being able to put that information. It’s like okay, now let’s break it down to 10 topics or five topics. And so then they’ve got a topic for each episode.

Pat (05:12):

They have all the information in their heads. It’s just helping them organize it and just getting it out there. But these business owners that come in, their biggest fear is actually hosting. We’ve had people come in and say, “Well, I want to do a podcast, but we got to find a host. I can’t host”. It’s like, “Well it’s your business, you’re the expert”. So they have all that knowledge in there. It’s just helping, them organize it in a way that makes sense.

JT (05:33):

And can I say, nobody’s failed. Everyone that’s come in and said, “Well, I can’t host this I’m too nervous.” And they would be the first couple. We’ve even redone episodes. Because we weren’t going to put anything out there that doesn’t make somebody look good. And every one of them has evolved. And it’s really kind of like a mother hen thing, kind of like the parents thing. It’s like you notice the growth and now the confidence, coming in to do the podcast is not an issue. They bring the content and there’s just a whole nother level of confidence.

Meghan (06:08):

Yeah. Well, I was joking with you guys about podcast inception, it’s podcast within a podcast. But I know personally of course, starting our own podcast. Of course, we have a team of marketers that was helping me plan our content and helping get our experts prepared to speak but I feel like this is season two and now we got our nerves worked out and we’re growing.

JT (06:28):

You probably notice it too from, from day one it’s a whole new… And just learning how to get comfortable with the headphones.

Pat (06:34):

And hearing your own voice is a big one.

Meghan (06:37):

Oh yeah. It made me so nervous to listen to our episode. Because [crosstalk 00:06:41]

Pat (06:40):

We all sound. We’re used to it but if people hear their voice, “They’re like, I sound like that? That’s awful.”

JT (06:46):

That’s the thing is I think when anybody that used to come on the radio shows with us, in particular when they put on the headphones. When you’re talking, you’re hearing your voice from the inside out. And so when you put on the headphones, you’re hearing it from the outside in. That’s how everybody else hears you.

Meghan (07:00):

That’s scary.

Pat (07:00):

Right? I know.

JT (07:02):

You think you’ve got this sultry, dulcet tones just laying it out and then you hear it in this. And you’re like, “Oh my God, oh my God.”

Meghan (07:11):

Now I’m nervous. You guys have years of expertise.

JT (07:12):

But it’s also getting comfortable. You don’t have to have a professional voice. The whole thing is your content will carry you. And there are people, the uniqueness of your voice is what’s important.

Pat (07:26):

Actually, since we’ve transitioned over from radio to podcasting, if somebody is on and say, it’s a whatever random business owner and they’re too polished and it’s too radio sounding, too slick, it almost is like, “Well let the doesn’t seem right.” Because it’s all about authenticity. It’s all about authenticity. So if you screw up, if you don’t have the best voice, you get lost in your notes. That’s what everybody does. So people can relate to that. That’s why people really connect with podcast hosts and podcasts in general.

JT (07:55):

Yeah. What we like to say too is, when you’re hiring somebody to deliver your message and the way of traditional media is you hire a spokesperson and they’re polished. They’re rehearsed. They don’t make mistakes. They sound absolutely wonderful in their tone, the whole nine yards. But the thing is, people aren’t tuning into your podcast to hear a professional voice. They’re tuning into hear the professional. They want to hear you talking about it. Because nobody is going to sound as passionate about their topic or as intelligent as you because that’s your product.

Meghan (08:28):

Yeah, what I really like about listening to a lot of podcasts that are like that, like more informational, is that it feels like the curtain’s lifted like, “Oh I’m a fly on the wall” in their conversation. Like I’m just listening in it’s not, I don’t know if the right word is overproduced, it’s not scripted.

JT (08:42):

Yeah. It’s not scripted.

Meghan (08:46):

Being in morning radio for so long that was what we were taught. Our whole career was to make your show sound like, for someone that’s listening, is that they’re listening to you from another table in a restaurant, just kind of eavesdropping. And so that’s what the transition from radio into podcasting was so smooth because that’s what our focus was for, I won’t say 30 years, but that’s what our focus was. So that’s what makes podcasts so successful. Because if you feel like you’re a fly on the wall, then that means the podcast host is doing the right thing.

JT (09:14):

It should be one on one. Some podcasts when they start, new people when they start, they’ll address their audience, “and for my listeners” and you know most people are listening by themselves. They’re either in their car, have their phones on, have their buds in, whatever it might be. They’re they’re not listening in a group around a table.

Pat (09:34):

And it drives me crazy on Instagram or on, wherever, Facebook live, somebody jumps up, “Hey guys, what’s up?” It’s like, “Well, you’re supposed to be talking to one person”. So when somebody says, “Hey guys” you don’t have that personal connection with somebody. But if they say, “Hey, how are you?”, “What’s up?”, “Thanks for joining me.”

JT (09:50):

“Just want to check in with you today”, “This is what I’m doing.”

Pat (09:52):

And it’s the little things, it’s those little things.

Meghan (09:54):

Yeah, that’s something small I never would’ve thought of. But that makes a lot of sense.

Pat (09:57):

Now you’re not going to hear an Instagram live where they go, “Hi guys” without thinking of us. [crosstalk 00:10:01]

Meghan (10:00):

Now I’m going to be like wrong. Don’t do this. So you guys mentioned radio, obviously seasoned pros, how do we move from radio into podcasting? What are kind of differences? You mentioned a lot but break it down.

JT (10:19):

Getting to go in depth and not having a time limit on you is a big one. And that’s a hard adjustment coming from, especially morning radio, but any radio, honestly, because the breaks, you have to take four to six breaks an hour, depending on how you’re formatted. And so you get to talk for what, two or three minutes. And you have that internal clock. When we first started our podcast doing 10 minutes was hard.

Pat (10:45):

Because we were so used to not letting content breathe and letting there be dead air, you always have to fill it. Yeah. That was the hardest thing.

JT (10:54):

And you’re right. Letting it breathe. That’s the biggest thing is that in a podcast, you can let the topic breathe. You can take it to its natural conclusion. You don’t have to just boom, boom, boom, and wrap it up. You can take the little side roads.

Pat (11:08):

Yeah. Or on the other side of it, if it’s a topic that it’s maybe 10 minutes long you don’t have to fill space and extend it to 20 or 25 minutes because a sponsor said to or whatever. You can just let it die or let it be over.

JT (11:22):

When it’s went to its natural conclusion. It really is. I mean if we get done in 15 minutes, but we’ve covered all the bases, we’re done.

Pat (11:30):

We’re done. And also the on demand aspect of a podcast, because in radio and TV, it’d be like “Listen tomorrow morning at 7:10 because we’re going to give you blah, blah, blah” or trying to get someone to stay in their car in extra two minutes to extend that time spent listening for your ratings. You don’t have to do that anymore because people aren’t going to miss a meeting because you’re talking about something stupid.

JT (11:53):

They want to be able to hit pause. And I think they’ve gotten to that point. We’ve got that tipping point finally, because even some vehicles were coming out with radios that you could pause and you could rewind just a little bit after you’d been listening for a while. You could go back. But we’ve reached that tipping point of on demand listening. Appointment listening is out the door. And I will hit pause or I’m just going to miss the rest of it because if you aren’t going to stick around then I don’t have time.

Pat (12:18):

Right. And looking back on it now, it just seems so arrogant being in that position that you think that whatever you’re presenting is more important than what the person’s doing, that they’re going to change their whole schedule just to listen to what you had to say.

JT (12:30):

But that was the whole point of what we did.

Pat (12:31):

That was the whole point. It seems so ridiculous now.

JT (12:33):

It does. It was that “You have to listen tonight at five to find out the number one food in your pantry that’s killing you”. Tonight at 5:00, I’m going to be Googling that so I’ll know by then. So there is no more of that. You bring the information that people are looking for. If somebody is seeking out your podcast, it’s because they intentionally searched the type, style, or information that you’re giving. And so it is intentional. It’s not just a drive by where they’re just going down the dial and hope they hit something that sounds interesting. They’re looking for you. And then they listen intently. You aren’t background noise. With most the time radio and music is. And now they’re really hanging on your words. You’ve got their ear.

Meghan (13:22):

You’ve been selected. I know for me, as a listener, I listened to you guys growing up. [crosstalk 00:13:36] I’m not that young, but that was the thing. I’d be like, “Well, I got to go to class, I guess I won’t be catching the rest of this. Shoot, I’ll never know.” But then also like now with podcasts, I know just devouring it, I can devour a whole season, like shutting it off is not an option. And so when I find something I’m super passionate about or super into, I can share it. And I feel like with radio, that was a major change for me. I’d be like, “Oh, well did you hear this morning?” They’re like, “No.” I’m like, “I’m not going to do it justice by trying to tell you.”

JT (14:08):

That’s a great point, though.

Pat (14:08):

That is a great point.

Meghan (14:09):

But sharing it has become the major thing for me. I’m shooting my mom episodes, shooting our coworkers episodes.

Pat (14:16):

And as a podcaster, relying on the people that like you already to share it is an endorsement. But the person that shares you is like, “Hey, I like them, you’ll like them too.” So that’s, that’s extremely valuable to a podcaster.

JT (14:27):

That’s just crazy. I guess the sharing part of it with radio, you can’t. You were either there or you weren’t.

Meghan (14:35):

And so many stations, at least from when I remember were of a certain genre, right? So you’re getting the same types of content where like I’m not going to visit 80 different radio stations, but on podcasts I’m grabbing stuff from true crime. I’m grabbing journalism stories, I’m grabbing economy and marketing and all kinds of different things off the shelf.

JT (14:57):

Because you were limited to, “well, there’s 12 stations.” So we have 12 morning shows and four of them are this style, four of them are this style. Like four sports stations, you got four Entertainment Tonight’s style stations. And that’s it. And if you don’t want to listen to it, well, good luck.

Pat (15:15):

And TV’s the same way. When was the last time you sat down at seven o’clock every Thursday to watch a TV show or it’s always on. Always.

Meghan (15:22):

I don’t think I’ve ever watched live.

JT (15:25):

My kids don’t even know that that’s a thing. Like they really don’t. They don’t know what channel seven is. They don’t know what like sitting down and watching the Bachelorette every Tuesday…

JT (15:33):

Live. As it happens.

Pat (15:35):

I’ve had that conversation before. They don’t know what that is.

JT (15:38):

Isn’t that crazy. I remember that time when things were starting to change. When it was like, “Wow, I haven’t watched a live commercial.” I haven’t watched a commercial because I fast forward. And then they started the DVRs. At the time DVRs wouldn’t allow you to fast forward through commercials. And then you’d have any of the cloud services, they also started doing that as well. So then now you got the subscription platforms that allow you to completely avoid them. So that brings back another topic too, as far as podcasts and business, how do you get to these people who are ad avoiders?

Pat (16:12):

I got to tell you. But for the note, the people that advertise on our podcast, we do not fast forward through those ads.

JT (16:16):

No, we do not and that is also a proven fact though, across the board, the ads that are placed on podcasts, people listen to them because they trust the host, they chose that host. They chose that podcast. So they have an investment already.

Meghan (16:30):

And because we have all those analytics from the marketing. So we have the analytics behind who’s the listeners, when they’re listening, what types of other interests they have. And we can use that for our advertisers to say, “Hey, we think this is a good placement for you.” And it’s going to feel really authentic, whether it’s an ad that’s placed within a podcast or it’s the host endorsing a product it feels really natural.

JT (16:52):

And there are some that are still out there that they do the ad placement where every once in a while you’ll have an ad that does not fit their genre. And I remember one is a true crime type podcast that I listen to. It’s two men, it’s really good. And they were doing an ad for a bra and I’m like, “How much did you just get paid?”

Pat (17:08):

Oh, 100%.

JT (17:09):

You don’t use this. And you don’t even mention if your wife does. So I do not believe that. But that side of it placing ads and then the other side of the branded podcast, trying to reach those ad avoiders with your podcast, with your information, because if they’re looking for information on how to build a shed or you’re a lumberyard and you want to have the best products or you’re a doctor and you specialize in this, when people are searching for that information, they want that right now. Not all the other crap.

Meghan (17:37):

Well, that just kind of tags on to what our first episode was about with Dan and Max. We were just talking about YouTube and video and well, even this podcast we’re being recorded and it’s going to be a slice and dice for social, for YouTube, for other ways to consume this content. Because maybe you are just looking for a quick answer. “What equipment do I need to start my podcast?”

Pat (17:58):

They don’t want to watch a 30 minute episode.

Meghan (17:59):

Yeah, they don’t need to hear us talk for 30 minutes, here’s a list.

JT (18:02):

Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with that and it used to be that they tried to force you to do that because consumption of the whole thing was what they were basing their success on.

Pat (18:10):

Lies. All lies.

JT (18:12):

It is. It was all lies. Yes. So what are your favorite podcasts?

Meghan (18:16):

Oh my gosh. I have so many right now. I know it’s so bad. Okay. Well here’s a fun fact. I listen to every episode of This American Life. I added it up. It’s seriously.

JT (18:26):

How many episodes is that?

Meghan (18:27):

Like 300 or 400 something crazy. I was like, “At an hour, a piece that’s like a year.” But I was like, “Where did my time go? Did I just go down a black hole?” But it’s while I’m in the car. [crosstalk 00:18:40].

Pat (18:39):

The good thing about podcasting is that’s about the only medium that you can consume pretty much anywhere. While you’re driving, while you’re working out, you can’t watch videos. You’re not supposed to, when you’re driving. You can’t really, I mean, you can while you’re on the treadmill, but when you’re out running outside you can listen to podcasts all the time. But it’s really almost anywhere in class sneaky, at work. So you didn’t like check out a life. You’re just listening to it while you’re doing something else.

Meghan (19:02):

Yeah, exactly. And so I’ve listened to a ton of This American Life. Otherwise, a lot of true crime podcasts, like anything that’s new. In Your Backyard right now I just finished. I’m trying to think. I have like…

JT (19:13):

Isn’t it funny when somebody asks and you’re like, “Oh my God, there’s so many and I can’t remember one.”

Meghan (19:17):

What about you guys? What are you listening to?

JT (19:21):

Across the board, I love conspiracy theory podcasts. And especially the goofy ones. I like the ones that are like, “What? Come on. How did that get started?”

Meghan (19:30):

That’s how they get you hooked though because then you’re like…

JT (19:35):

It’s kind of childish. You know some of them are like, “There used to be giants on the earth.” Wait, okay. Now explain that one. You know and they do. It’s awesome. I love true crime. Absolutely. And serial, any of those stories and especially the ones that have turned into TV shows. which is just crazy, but they’re great writers writing and delivering their story. What are you listening to Pat?

Pat (19:58):

Same. True crime. A couple sports ones, I love one called Slow Burn, which is really good.

Meghan (20:04):

Wait, what’s that about? I feel like I’ve heard…

Pat (20:06):

It just takes like stories over the past 30 years and really goes in depth on them. I think the Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky thing was one of them. There’s the Payola Plugola of radio is one of them. And it’s not just like an inside radio deal. It’s just one of those that’s produced very, very well. And it’s seven or eight episodes released every week. And I can’t wait till I see that notification. I like Dax Shephard’s podcast too. And also Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum’s a good one. So yeah, I like the longer form interview ones. I’m not like a quick, fast 25 minute one. I like if somebody has an hour and a half interview, because I can start it and stop it and it’ll take me a week to listen to it.

JT (20:40):

But, that goes right back to our point about podcasts being able to take things to its natural conclusion instead of trying to edit yourself to just hit the high points. Because some of that other stuff is really fascinating. I bet you learned things about the Clinton era that you didn’t know about at the time because there wasn’t time to tell us.

Pat (20:56):

Yep. Yeah, and one was about Watergate. This Slow Burn had the Watergate scandal and there were lots that I didn’t know about that. And I learned about that in school.

JT (21:05):

And didn’t know half of what actually happened.

Meghan (21:09):

It’s amazing.

JT (21:09):

Yes, it is. It’s pretty cool and it’s getting bigger all the time. The audience has grown tremendously over the last, my gosh, we started a little over three years ago or right at three years ago, I guess it was. But anyway, the leaps and bounds of how much it has grown and that people are so familiar with it now.

Meghan (21:27):

Well, I guess also because you can do it yourself. There’s so many of these untold stories that because you didn’t have a seat at like a radio studio that now you can, if you have a microphone, you can tell your story or explain your expertise. It’s just given us more content to consume.

JT (21:44):

Exactly. If somebody’s looking for you, you better be out there. Right? So get it out there. Put your content together.

Meghan (21:51):

Awesome. Well, it’s so exciting visiting with you guys.

Pat (21:54):

You too. Thanks for having us in here.

Meghan (21:55):

Yeah. Thanks for joining.

JT (21:56):

You bet.

Speaker 4 (21:58):

I’ve Heard That is a part of the Hurrdat Media Network. For more information follow Hurrdat on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter or Instagram, or visit hurrdatmarketing.com.

Speaker 5 (22:07):

A Hurrdat Media production.